For years Stuy Town residents have been anxiously waiting for the "dedicated outdoor areas for dogs" that despicable defaulters Tishman Speyer used as bait for pet-loving renters. With no explanation to tenants - thankfully they weren't holding their breath - Stuyvesant Town decided against the dog runs in favor of a generic "pet friendly" message.The decision to allow dogs to roam the Stuy has been a controversial one, mostly because management refuses to enforce the rules it creates. On any given day there are dogs urinating and defecating on the laws, running freely off their leashes, and there are quite a number of illegal pit-bulls living in the complex. Not only does this create a divide between dog owners and non dog owners, but there is also friction between responsible dog owners who follow the rules, and the rest who do whatever they feel like and give everyone a bad name.
A few months ago in the Oval, two small children were chased after by a couple of dogs who the owners let off their leashes. All hell broke loose between the parents, the dog owners, and other residents who witnessed the attack. Bystanders called security to break it up and when asked why tickets are not given to people who blatantly disregard the rules, security said Tishman Speyer gave them direct orders not to ticket residents or enforce the rules. As it turned out, the dog owners didn't live in Stuy Town and were asked to leave the property.
Residents are still hoping to get the dog runs they were promised by Tishman Speyer. A petition for the dog runs has been collecting dust over here, and now residents are vandalizing the property to get their point across.
A Coop-Snoop (thanks S.T.!) photographed the map outside Peter Cooper Village which has the words "petition for dog run" and the url "pcvstdog.com" scrawled on it in hot pink letters. The Coop-Snoop writes:
"The best way to get people to sign your petition... really isn't to plaster neon pink graffiti all over the neighborhood. Flyers: Great, Notices: Great, People walking around with clipboards: Great, Pink sharpie badly applied to the back of a signpost: Not so bloody great."
The website caters to dog owners in Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village and also has a petition for dog runs which can be signed. It is unclear if the website owners scribbled the message or if it was done by a resident who, like many others, would like to see the dog runs materialize. Either way it's probably not the best approach to gain support from the community.
Tishman Speyer gave them direct orders not to ticket residents or enforce the rules.
Something along these lines was intimated by a person in the recreation department when I asked him why neither his staff nor security goes to Playground 9 in the evenings or weekends to sweep for proof-of-residency. Despite acknowledging the problem that is non-residents coming in off the street and treating Playground 9 like their own little Rucker Park, the recreation dept. and security are "not permitted" right now to check for proof of residency, despite the language on signs within and without Playground 9 clearly stating who's allowed to use it.
And in the interest of staying on topic: I just walked back from Walgreens and saw this "message" in a florescent green scrawl on the side of the trash bin on the northeast corner of 18th St. It looked like someone tried wiping it off.
I have a dog and signed all the petitions, but this is just stupid. What better way to grow the divide than by vandalizing the neighborhood like a bored kid.
It's all over the place.
Let's see how good a job the security cameras do on this one.
I think I speak for a majority of residents when I say no one actually wants a dog run near their respective building/apt. That, plus management's general ineptitude, mean it just ain't gonna happen, period. Dog owners are upset because they were "promised" a dog run? Well there are plenty of things management has promised residents over the years which they haven't fulfilled, so we shouldn't expect any more from them here. We should, however, expect more from ourselves. The irresponsible dog owners that Lux mentions really are ruining it for everyone else. It's not hard to curb your dogs when they have to poop/pee, people. Nor is it hard to keep them on a leash and off the garden. Forget for a moment that it's ST policy and there are signs posted to remind you AND you signed the pet rider of your lease agreeing to follow the policy ... it is NYC law. If all residents treated their shared space with respect maybe things - for dog owners and non-dog owners alike - might improve.
My Coop-Snoop idea in print! I'm so proud. :o)
True, residents may not want a dog run by their building but at least have the conversation. A happy medium may be found. I take my dog to the dog run at TSP and honestly, it's not that noisy. The kids in the playgrounds are FAR noisier. The TSP dog run is very clean and could be used as a model if TS was so inclined.
TS promised us lots of things, but the dog issue is complicated because they created a situation they don't want to deal with. We are sick of seeing irresponsible dog owners making the rest of us look bad. If I see a dog off their leash, or someone letting their dog go on the grass/in the bushes, I'll say something. (Surprise) But if it's a woman I won't because then I'll look like a bully. I shouldn't have to be put in this position. I shouldn't have to confront other residents and do the job of management. It's a bad deal all around.
I think I speak for a majority of residents when I say no one actually wants a dog run near their respective building/apt.
I'd prefer a dog run in place of Playground 9. The sounds of happy barking and yipping would be an improvement over the incessant hollered profanities we hear whenever non-resident dipshits misses their lay-ups.
I love most dogs , it is dog owners who are the problem. far too many dog owners in PCV let their dogs go on the grass , despite signs saying otherwise. this is where all residents want the opportunity to relax in the nice weather, without having to worry about coming in contact with dog feces or urine.. moreover easily a majority of dog owners in PCV use the extendable leashes which are very dangerous and against NYC law.
I live on the main floor and people regularly use the grass behind my building to let their dogs do their thing. And occasionally a group of tenants stand out there smoking cigarettes while their dogs frolic and pee where they shouldn't.
Because of this behavior we will fight any effort to have a dog run in STPCV.
That's the dumbest logic I ever heard. That's why there NEEDS to be a dog run. If there were specific locations for dogs they wouldn't be going outside your window.
Then again Im sure there's no shortage of humans who want to take a dump outside your window.
As a dog owner, the term curb your dog always threw me for a loop. Never in a million years would I take my dog to do his business in the street where there is broken glass, trash, stagnant puddles of water and dangerous drivers who would overlook myself or my small pup.
Megan, you're a perfect example of the self centered, narcissistic dog owner who literally thinks that their dogs shit doesn't stink.
The curb LAW (that's right, it's a LAW in NYC) was designed to keep dog waste in the street where it can be washed into the storm drains by street sweepers or rainstorms. Instead, you prefer to leave the remains of your dog on our sidewalks, where we can then carry it into our apartments on our shoes.
Your attitude is abhorrent and disgraceful, and your rationale is inaccurate, as there's little danger to your dog at curbside, unless you're stupid enough to lead it into danger.
It's time for people who don't control their animals properly to take account and responsibility for their actions, and stop pretending they're the only residents of the planet.
I don't think it's self centered for me to look out for my dog, who is a living creature just like yourself, and not want him to step on glass, nails, or whatever the hell is in the street. Nor is it narcissistic to not want to get hit by a car, bike rider, taxi, whatever. I think you are completely over exaggerating your view. I never said I don't clean up after my dog, I do, every time, no matter what.
*I think you are completely over exaggerating your view of myself.
(didn't want to make it seem like I disagreed with your view on CERTAIN dog owners who don't do their part to keep this city clean)
"Then again I am sure there's no shortage of humans who want to take a dump outside your window"
You know 447 Hell whoever you are , you are a jerk. Writing a comment like that exhibits what a moronic asshole you truly are!
As for your other comment, any dog run in STPCV will be adjacent to some tenants' apartments. I guess that's ok with you provided of course that the run is not outside your building, because as we know from your incessant posts, you just hate noise, or is it just human noise you hate?
I have a great idea-let's designate the hallway of the floor you live on as the official STPCV dog run!
You can't clean up dog urine from grass nor will you get all of your dog's feces. We humans in STPCV like to use the grass being polluted illegally by your and other dogs. Of even more concern is that many young children play on the grass and the babies and toddlers are quite vulnerable to diseases caused by your inconsiderate behavior
I haven't conducted an environmental impact study, but it honestly seems to me that good and responsible dog owners like 447 HELL and Meagan are a small minority among dog owners in ST-PCV.
It seems to me that a majority of the dog owners here do at least one of the following: (a) use illegal leashes,(b) allow their dogs to go in the gardens and on the grass, (c) allow their dogs to poop and pee in the gardens and on the grass, (d) let their dogs run leashless, AND/OR (e) don't clean up their dogs' poop.
OT: Even Robbie curbed and cleaned up after his goats on the 14th Street Loop last Saturday. :)
I would never expect a narcissist to understand reality. You only understand what YOU want to understand.
By choosing not to curb my dog at the street, I was not insinuating that I let him go wherever he feels, or that I don't clean up after him. I was just stating my reasons as to why I feel like that law seems harmful to myself (getting hit by a delivery bike, taxi, car etc) and pup (who would gladly jump at the chance to pick up god knows what from the street and eat it). I don't let my dog pee in the grass where children/people lounge and I agree that it is unsanitary and disgusting. Yourself and others who have a vendetta against disrespectful dog owners (not saying that vendetta is unwarranted) are overlooking the fact that there are dog owners who are extremely conscious where their pooch poops/pees.
Correct, you caught me. I am a complete narcissist because I don't let my dog pee on the street. God forbid I break a nail while walking off the curb! Wouldn't want to ruin my perfect shoes! Hell, who am I kidding, I just have a dog as a fashion accessory!
We've discussed dog runs at length in the past, both here and on the old TA boards.
There are 2 dog runs within a short walk from ST/PCV, but it is obvious that people are too lazy to take the walk that their dog would enjoy.
My suggestion has always been to create another dog run near the perimeter of the complex. There could be one created within the Asher Levy Park area, or adjacent to Stuyvesant Cove Park.
It would make more sense to wait until there was a responsible management in place here, and then make an intelligent decision that is in the best interests of the entire community.
TS does NOT have the best interests of it's tenants in mind. It is still acting with it's eye set firmly on the bottom line, even though it no longer owns the property.
Meagan is not a narcissist. I wouldn't drag my dog into the gutter either for all the reasons she mentioned.
Having been to the other 2 dog runs you mention, they are inadequate. Small and large dogs are mixed together and the spaces are not secure. It's not laziness, it's concern for our pets being safe.
Thankyou. I also wouldn't bring my dog to those dog parks because they are filthy, and as I mentioned before my dog has a habit of eating everything and getting sick from it. Although I doubt TS would do any better of a job if we had a dog park.
And of course your pet's safety is FAR more important that allowing your neighbors the quiet enjoyment of their apartments or your complying with STPCV rules and NYC law by properly curbing your dog.
It's not noise I hate, it's screaming kids. There's a huge courtyard outside my window where guys play hockey all the time. They don't bother me in the least because their voices aren't comprable to screeching pterodactyls.
I'd rather have 40 dog runs outside my window than a playground full of screaming children being ignored by their parents.
My dog isn't barky so it's not disruptive of anyone's quiet time. And I pick up after it, always, so STFU already.
I've had both, kids and dogs.
Kids go home early and go to bed. Dogs outside of my 10th floor window barking and howling 11 pm to 1 am sometimes. awesome.
There is no place within STPCV suitable for a dog run, hence Anonymous' reasonable suggestions of the park on Asser Levey Place or part of Stuyvesant Cove. It is obvious from the historical behavior of all too many dog owners in STPCV that any dog run will not be cleaned properly and will be used whenever the owners want to use it AND many others will continue not curbing their dogs and using illegal and dangerous leashes.Bad behavior by many of my neighbors who own dogs should not be rewarded.
and of course even if people didn't live here, they'd bring their dogs in.
I'd like to think "management" would close the dog runs at sundown as they do with the playgrounds for that very reason.
And feel free to come by my place when they lock the courtyard down at night and listen to the kids scream unattended for the next two hours while their parents eat pizza and drink wine out of Solo cups on the bench! :)
To all:
When this tread with its rather flammable topic blipped up last time, I believe someone posted the rider to the lease whereby it specifically prohibited ST/PCV dog owners from allowing their animals to defecate on the property,
, whether you curbed the dog or not.
I am not saying that this rider was sane or enforceable, that’s just that is what the rule is.
Boo, as usual, sums it all up quite nicely.
You see what you're up against. Emotional irrationality versus logic, decency and democracy. Our civic leaders have already created laws to address these issues, and when people don't respect their community, the only way to win the argument is through enforcement, not indulging individual whim.
Arguing against irrational emotion is a waste of time.
Emotional irrationality versus logic? When Ziggy called me an asshole which side did he fall on?
I think I've been rather rational. Management created this problem and they don't want to deal with it.
Your logic that you are so dependent on is set on ill footings. Let us blindly obey every single law that has been created even if we think it interferes with our safety. I don't doubt the good intention of the curb your dog law, and I don't disagree with picking up after your pooch and not letting it pee on public areas such as lawns and gardens. I keep on repeating myself about this and yet you seem to turn your shoulder and spout that we go around flinging our dog's poop everywhere. YOU are exactly the type of "narcissist" who is so self absorbed in their own pre-conceived notions to realize that not EVERYONE fits into your cookie cutter mold of "irrational dog owners."
are you 447 and where? tell me so i never go there. and btw, I call security to close down when they forget.
I called you an asshole for your snarky remark about humans wanting to defecate outside my apartment!
Your memory is conveniently selective.
I will refrain from ad hominum attacks except against those (like you) who personally attack me first (and for no reason)
You're such a bore. I'm through engaging you.
So by your logic if I don't like the law prohibiting felonious assault I'm free to do that ?
If you don't like the law, change it or don't complain. We live in a civilized society. You are NOT free to simply do as you please, even if your mommy and daddy said it was OK.
I was talking about the law, not piling on to attack you. We're obviously of differing opinion on this issue, but I didn't make it personal.
"So by your logic if I don't like the law prohibiting felonious assault I'm free to do that ?"
Don't put words in my mouth, what I said was:
"Let us blindly obey every single law that has been created even if we think it interferes with our safety."
Notice those last words there, INTERFERES WITH OUR SAFETY. By my logic, if a law was created that could cause potential harm to myself, LIKE GETTING HIT BY A CAR while my dog goes in the street, then no, of course I'm not going to obey that. Comparing the curb your dog law to a felony law is like comparing apples to oranges and is way off point. My mommy and daddy told me to do what morally is right, and to consider personal safety as an important factor. I'm guessing your mommy and daddy told you to be an ever obeying robot?
Obviously the only thing that is important to you is that you get what YOU want. That's what your mommy and daddy gave you. Honey... it don't work that way.
I've brought up valid arguments to strengthen my point of view and all you seem use are personal attacks. I see that as the last attempt in a dying argument. Please go ahead and keep attacking my upbringing and parents, very classy way to get your point? across.
You're embarrassing yourself. It's not what I think, it's the law. Your parents have nothing to do with it, except for their obviously skewing your ability to develop logical understanding.
And you haven't brought up a single valid argument to support your case. It's absolute nonsense that it's unsafe to have your dog take a crap between parked cars, or at a curb, Puhleeeeese, give me a break. Listen to yourself. Learn how to obey the law. Stop arguing invalid points when you're in the wrong.
I'm done. Please do not expect any further from me on this issue.
You're ridiculous, my parents have nothing to do with it yet you keep bringing it up?
And I'm to guess you've obeyed every single law, you cross at the crosswalks and only when the light is red. Give me a break.
What is so completely illogical about not wanting to be in a nyc street, where taxi drivers, bikers, etc are whizzing by, and when god knows how many pedestrians have been killed/hurt? There is nothing illogical about objecting to a law that puts me in danger! It's so simple!
In what world do you live in that you could think it's not dangerous? Is NYC some pink bubble to you where drivers are 100% paying attention to everything around them? Are NYC streets cleaned every night by a fairy that whisks away all the glass, trash, stagnant water and god knows what from the gutters?
Are you really done Anon?
Because I wish you'd shut the f*ck up!!
It's quite rude the way you hound (yep that's a pun) folks on this site.
"With no explanation to tenants - thankfully they weren't holding their breath - Stuyvesant Town decided against the dog runs in favor of a generic "pet friendly" message".
When and how did TS actually communicate that decision to tenants or prospective renters? I don't remember anything.
Uh-huh....
And you're going to do what about that, putz ?
Stuy Town's website advertised it for a while. Click the links in the post, there are a few screenshots in the posts.
It frightens me to think I live near so many shut-in, animal hating, psychotics.
Tell me about. It's no wonder people would rath keep pets than talk to some of these boners.
lol! Maybe more people will sign the petitions.
I don't have a dog but I enjoy watching them frolick, play, hump each other, etc, whenever I pass by the TSP dog run. On a warm day, however, it really does smell bad--there's no denying it.
Kittie, if you pass by the Oval on a sunny weekend day you can see the NYU students doing EXACTLY THE SAME activities that you see the dogs doing at TSP. Smells pretty bad too! ;-)
GAIL:
WELL SAID, IF ITS NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT DOGS ITS NYU KIDS OR SOMEONE TAKING LAUNDRY OUT OF WASHERS/DRYERS WHEN NOT IN USE.
I'm just amazed that there hasn't been an actual mauling or biting incident from either a resident's dog or an outsiders dog.
Someday someone is going to be really maimed because of a dog that is either too big/vicious and usually not on a leash.
A smaller dog might be the first victim, but if its a toddler....
Actually saw security telling people to get their dogs off the lawn the other night...that was a first!
That's amazing! On Sunday, some guy on the Oval had three rodents he was playing with, throwing them up in the air, kissing them, etc. I think they were chinchillas. They were cute, but I don't think they belong on the Oval! Of course, there was not a security guard in sight for the two hours I watched.
That would be "the chinchilla guy." A neighborhood fixture. :-)