Via New York Post
The Tenants Association at beleaguered Stuyvesant Town-Peter Cooper Village is is handing out documents asking residents to pledge their support to whatever action to association takes to gain control of the 80-acre property.
The agreement asks the complex's 25,000 or so residents to agree to two things. First, that they "designate" the board of the StuyTown tenants association to "make efforts to negotiate on behalf of the tenants and to protect (their) interests." Secondly, that tenants give the association "the opportunity to present me with a plan for my consideration" prior to the tenant making any moves to buy their apartments.
The agreement is creating a lot of hubbub in the halls of the historic apartment complex, with neighbors asking each other what to do, sources say. Some tenants are refusing to sign until they hear the TA's plan of action, which should be revealed this Saturday during a meeting at Baruch College.
"They want us to follow their lead, but I don't know what their lead is," said Jonathan Turkel, a long time resident. "I could be following them off a cliff for all I know."
Other tenants say they don't want to sign anything that might bar them from going forward with plans to buy their own apartments, and are seeking more information about this point before putting ink to paper. Even though the documents specify that it's not legally binding, the language alone is making people nervous, sources say.
Stuy Town Tenant Leaders to Residents: Sign Here [NY Post]
The Tenants Association at beleaguered Stuyvesant Town-Peter Cooper Village is is handing out documents asking residents to pledge their support to whatever action to association takes to gain control of the 80-acre property.The agreement asks the complex's 25,000 or so residents to agree to two things. First, that they "designate" the board of the StuyTown tenants association to "make efforts to negotiate on behalf of the tenants and to protect (their) interests." Secondly, that tenants give the association "the opportunity to present me with a plan for my consideration" prior to the tenant making any moves to buy their apartments.
The agreement is creating a lot of hubbub in the halls of the historic apartment complex, with neighbors asking each other what to do, sources say. Some tenants are refusing to sign until they hear the TA's plan of action, which should be revealed this Saturday during a meeting at Baruch College.
"They want us to follow their lead, but I don't know what their lead is," said Jonathan Turkel, a long time resident. "I could be following them off a cliff for all I know."
Other tenants say they don't want to sign anything that might bar them from going forward with plans to buy their own apartments, and are seeking more information about this point before putting ink to paper. Even though the documents specify that it's not legally binding, the language alone is making people nervous, sources say.
Stuy Town Tenant Leaders to Residents: Sign Here [NY Post]
Way to go, ziggy.
I just reread that quote again and I still can't believe it. We're all waiting to hear more on Saturday and judge for ourselves, but you couldn't wait could you? You had to supply a juicy damaging quote to the Post. Either you are just one really vain, impolitic human with an unquenchable thirst for the spotlight, or you are a vain, malicious prick with an unquenchable thirst for the spotlight deliberately trying to intentionally undermine the efforts of a lot of people. I'm leaning towards the latter.
Seriously Ziggy, you should think before you speak to your friend at the NY Post. What are you thinking? This is exactly the kind of stuff that can sink any effort, even one that you may ultimately support.
You have single handedly given the Wilber Ross'es and Donald Trumps a nice play card.
Off the side of a cliff? That is very hurtful to a group of people who give countless hours trying to protect the affordability and character of this community.
Please try to use your voice and intellect in a more constructive manner.
RR
Just f off already!!!!!!!!!!!
I will talk to whomever I wish to talk to without asking for your permission.
I was told by a Board member that people were being asked to sign a Unity Pledge BEFORE the meeting.And in fact several tenants have told me that they have already been asked by Board members to sign the Unity Pledge now .
That is all I was reacting to , the request to sign a document before we knew its significance.
BTW we were asked to do precisely that in 2006 , sign a pledge , even though to date we STILL have no idea about any of the details of the $4.5 billlion bid submitted on our behalf by the TA Board.
I fully support a tenant bid to coop/ condo the complex under a noneviction plan. I do NOT support giving a Unity Pledge to an unknown plan.
As I said to the NY Post and to any neighbor who has asked me, I will sign a pledge if what comes out of the March 13 meeting makes sense to me, not if it makes sense to you RR.!!
I received my packet of information today, including the pledge of unity. To me it's a reasonably worded document, and I don't think many people will have a problem with it. Why don't we discuss after reading it, instead of making assumptions.
Seriously Ziggy, you should think before you speak to your friend at the NY Post. What are you thinking? This is exactly the kind of stuff that can sink any effort, even one that you may ultimately support.
You have single handedly given the Wilber Ross'es and Donald Trumps a nice play card.
Off the side of a cliff? That is very hurtful to a group of people who give countless hours trying to protect the affordability and character of this community.
Please try to use your voice and intellect in a more constructive manner.
First Amendment rights notwithstanding, loose lips sink ships, it's better not to air one's dirty laundry in public, and discretion is the better part of valor. Once you say something to the media, you lose control of it. Always remember that the media is not your friend but a tool to be used.
I really don't understand what Ziggy has to gain by talking to the NY Post.
Why did you do it Ziggy?
Because he's a self-serving asshole. That's why he did it.
Whatever
Let's show up on Sat and hope Dan controls the meeting and the agenda.I believe he will and we can start developing some consensus among all tenants who attend and not just a handful of "insiders"
And ziggy is just the tool to use. And I do mean "tool."
And let me point out that had the TA been successful in its $4.5 billion bid in 2006 we would be foreclosure now -that is leading off a cliff in my books
So what did the Post give you Ziggy?
Was it money, sex, promises..?
I'm really curious to know.
Because, I just can't figure out why you did it.
All the Post had to give him was a platform to shoot his mouth off and he was off and running off at the mouth.
More lashing out. Seriously ziggy, you should just go sit in the corner and STFU.
Green Girl,
Am I correct? Are you a building captain? I am and have not received an email about picking up paperwork. Just wondering if you did and that's how you have the packet.
Thanks.
Ziggy you are a punk.
Well said Green Girl! The media is a tool not a pal. Never get into fight with those that buy ink by the barrel.
BTW, I'm curious, I just got a mailing from the TA the first ever with my name on it. Green Girl do you mind sharing which complex you are in? We are in Stuy-Town.
What are your impressions of the quality of the mailing? Did they personalize yours?
The packet came in the mail. The email I originally got from the TA said it was to arrive this past Monday, but it came today. And yes, I'm a building captain.
I think it was a mailer. I got mine this afternoon.
Thanks for clearing that up Green Girl.
Very true. But what were our options? As things have turned out, we were in a lose-lose position. Dan really stepped up in the situation and put together a bid (with assistance, I assume) that none of us could have put together. I think the whole experience was a defining moment in a number of ways--we found out how vulnerable we were, and we united and fought back. With the TA facilitating the J-51 suit, we brought former MR tenants into the fold, increasing our ranks. Let's stay positive and remember who our real enemies are--and who our friends are.
I think the mailing is very well done. The cover letter is personalized and includes a URL where you can state your views on the TA Web site (haven't tried it). There is a survey, a 3 1/2-page FAQs (same as on the Web site), the unity pledge, and a return envelope. Unlike that ridiculous T&V survey, the TA's doesn't mention apartment prices. (FWIW, I removed all the T&V surveys from my lobby yesterday. Screw 'em.)
Ok I think that Ziggy by now realizes he/she might have said what he/she felt in the wrong way and in the wrong arena. Ziggy could have expressed him/herself a bit more constructively when speaking with the press. By gosh the NY Post of all papers!
Ziggy is right that a small group of tenants should not be deciding the fate of 25,000 people, but I've just reviewed the mailing the TA sent and it looks very inclusive and has a survey asking for input from all of us. That's very positive.
I also note that the key phrases in the cover letter ..."and any solid solution must be built on informed tenant support" and this later in the letter regarding the survey, "We need your voice and those of your neighbors in order to develop a responsible plan that works for all tenants.
Old Ziggy, suspicious and ever vigilant.
The TA's efforts sound pretty "big tent" to me.
Dan G has now assured me that this time they will be "big tent" and I believe he is a man of his word.
My suspicions were based , in part, on last time when the entire process and offer was a state secret.
In fact, someone on this site recently noted that he/she still had no idea about the substance of the TA's 2006 bid.
He's Ziggy!!!! Not Brutus!!! Leave him alone!
I can take the heat. No worries!
I just read through the packet today & I have some real concerns with singing that form and giving them all of the personal information they are requesting.
I think if the pledge had stopped at point #1, there would be no issues.
I still have no idea who you are or how people know that it's your quote! I guess I was just the last one to know...
I frankly don't see anything damaging or inflammatory in that quote--regardless of who said it. We need this process to be more transparent and should not be asked for an open-ended commitment. Just seems like common sense to me.
I would like to be in control of my destiny here but, as with everything, the devil is in the details.
I am all for asking questions and getting answers.
I don't understand--the first part of the survey asks for personal info, but you don't want to say whether you prefer to rent or own? That tells our representatives what to push for. You don't want to say how long you plan to be here? That speaks to your commitment or whether you just want to flip the apartment. You don't want to give feedback about what needs improvement? That tells our representatives and any potential buyers what is important to us and where money will have to be spent (by us or another owner).
My decision to rent or own depends on the price. No one can reasonably answer that question without meaningful information about the costs involved. If the price is reasonable, I want to own. If the price is high, I want someone else to buy it and pay the excess cost of management & maintenance over what I pay in rent.
I've been here for over 40 years so I could probably make it another two. Of five. Or ten. Why not? It's also not relevant to striking a deal with the noteholders. If I buy my apartment and decide to move shortly thereafter, it's my decision and I may well change my mind after I drop that form in the mail.
What I pay in rent, what I do for a living, and what I think of the lawn or the washing machine in the basement should have no bearing on how we proceed.
I just got the TA package too. Yes, they ask for some personal information in the survey, but give explicit instructions not to provide your name or apartment number. The question is about renting/owning is kind of in your perfect world at this point because there aren't numbers. I'm guessing they are just trying to get a general feeling from the community at this point.
As for the pledge, the letter makes it pretty clear that the pledge is largely symbolic. Elected officials signed. Why don't you ask a lawyer if you have concerns?
May i ask- how can one get ahold of this package- being a stuy town resident for 15 years now, I would like to be here with family for another 50. What's going on exactly?
And it goes in the envelope with the pledge with your name on it!
Lawyers are like economists. They have lots of 'hands.' On one hand it says this...on the other hand it says that...find me a one-handed lawyer (and pay the fee) and I'd be happy to speak with him/her!
The rent question is really pure foolishness. They know what the rent roll is so they know what the average cost per apartment is.
Allow me to make a bold prediction: people paying $1,000 a month are not going to want to buy an apartment for $300,000 and shell out another $1,000 a month in maintenance. People paying $4,000 a month in rent are probably going to be open to the idea.
How long any of plan to stay is relevant. One of the possibilities mentioned here is a coop plan that prevents flipping for a big profit. What people think needs improvement indicates future costs, which plays into maintenance fees. What we think needs improvement tells other potential buyers where the problems are and where they should spend money and what sort of community we want. There are other more intrusive questions that could have been asked.
Not true. The return envelope that the pledge goes is addressed to the TA. My name/address appears nowhere on it. Nor is my name/address on either the survey or pledge.
You certainly are the demanding one. I'm not gonna get you a one handed lawyer. You'll have to get your own.
You have the luxury of sitting back and making predictions. The Ta doesn't. It seems pretty reasonable to me that they want to know if tenants would, in general, prefer to own or rent.
There were just two guys bleeding to death outside the leasing office, was that you Ziggy and RR? lol
I plead the Fifth
"How long any of plan to stay is relevant."
It may be relevant but it is not predictable, enforceable or an impediment to getting deal done.
"One of the possibilities mentioned here is a coop plan that prevents flipping for a big profit."
If we all SWEAR we will die in our apartments, does that mean they won't have a flip tax? Of course not.
"What people think needs improvement indicates future costs, which plays into maintenance fees."
We will have to spend on whatever needs maintenance. The choices on the form probably don't represent the real cost of maintaining the property. Do you know if they basement needs repair, the pipes are about to burst or when the next tuckpointing project will need to be done? Nope. Those are all more expensive than the options given on the form.
"What we think needs improvement tells other potential buyers where the problems are and where they should spend money and what sort of community we want."
This must be something new. Met didn't care. TS didn't care. They next one won't care either. And, if you are a RS renter, they don't care if you care.
"There are other more intrusive questions that could have been asked."
You can ask anything you want. My guess is that few people are going to answer the questions they asked as it is.
This is better than watching wrestling!
LOL!
It would be more funny if it wasn't about our homes.
I wish Manny would come back from Top of The Crock and tell us what Ovil Conseerje is cocking up for us for the beautiful season of springtime.
lifer my friend, I think you're getting obsessed with this.
It seems to me that the TA has done a good thing with these Unity Pledges and Survey. I just got mine and filled it out. I have no problem with showing solidarity with the TA, and don't think it's a problem that they get first dibs on presenting a potential buy offer for me to consider. They're not painting us into a corner with ANY of this stuff (IMHO).
The survey is simply giving them some raw data. They want a breakdown on rents so they know how many RS vs MR hands are in the air. I have no objection to any of this info. I welcome the opportunity to tell the TA what I think is most or least important in terms of maintenance (Are you listening MANNY ??). I gave priority to Security, the Grounds and Laundry because those are 3 areas that Tishman ruined and they need to be fixed.
As far as owning/renting/how long etc... that's all up in the air. I answered as optimistically as possible, knowing full well that I could be out of here soon or hang in another 10, it just depends. And if you want your survey to be completely anonymous, then just hand it in at the meeting.
I'm totally in favor of backing up the TA at this point. Let's see what they have to say and give them a shot. What is our alternative ?, unless all you fine folks at LL can come up with a magical organization to save our asses, I think the TA is it. (at this point).
See you Saturday... get there EARLY.
I will listen first and sign later. Want to put a deal in front of me? I have my checkbook and pen handy & I'm ready to sign. Just not a blank check...
Did you really say: "They want a breakdown on rents so they know how many RS vs MR hands are in the air?"
I think we are ALL RS, no?
No, I mean how many people are paying old style rents versus those paying the $2800 - $4000 rents. I imagine they're trying to judge some sort of affordability.
Again, I don't think there's any harm signing any pledge without hearing details. It's not binding you into their deal. It's also important to be prepared for red herrings and other pitfalls that might fall before us. Offering a pledge of solidarity with our neighbors (via the TA) is a good thing, even if it doesn't buy us much right now. And unlike you, I'm not ready to sign any checks because I'm (as I've said) exploring all options that I have, including renting, buying or maybe even moving on.
I agree that I want to hear their plans too.
Funny how changing a few words can make a difference in meaning and perception!
I stand solidly with my neighbors and family in the Complex. Not signing that form, tho...
As with most mass mailings, some people will get theirs before others do -- even if all 11,200 of these envelopes from the TA were mailed out at the same time.
If people started getting their envelopes today, then I'm pretty confident that you'll get yours by tomorrow. So look out for a big envelope from the TA.
...so you keep telling us-- over & over & over & over again. We get it. Really. *yawn*
What does the first paragraph of the "Post" article say????
Does anyone recognize the buildings in the photo? This is definitely not Stuy Town or Peter Cooper.
No heat for over a week. No hot water AGAIN today. I wouldn't buy an apartment in this lousy dump if they were selling at $50 a piece. I want out of here ASAP.
Yes, it's called LuxTown.
Are you serious? Who knew that the real estate market was going to implode? Certainly not big wigs like Tishman Speyer and many others. What else would you like to blame on the Tenants Association and Dan Garodnick?
I have NEVER blamed Dan for anything. He is trying very hard to manage this process intellingently and professionally.
My point was that this time the process must be done professionally and with all deliberate speed and when a proposal is finalized it should be presented in detail to the tenants who show up at a meeting called for that purpose
That was not the way it happened last time and as others have noted here virtually no tenant to this date knows the substance of the TA's 2006 bid.
And yes hindsight is 20-20 but all we have to go on is historical performance
Ziggy, would you and Boo get over 2006 already? It's irrelevant to today's situation. And whatever it was, we're lucky we didn't win the bid.
My interest in the 2006 plan is to learn about and assess how it was going to effect long term affordable housing for moderate/middle income people.
If you think that's irrelevant to today's situation, then you're an idiot.
TA announces speaker slate for Saturday meeting, includes reps from HPD, CW Capital, Rose Associates, along with Dan Garodnick, Christine Quinn Alex Schmidt and the usual gang of suspects (Stringer, Duane, Kavanaugh) who they promise will make "brief" comments. Congresswoman Maloney is going to speak about Fannie and Freddie issues.
Learn from your mistakes or expect to repeat them.
Better yet, learn from the mistakes of others and avoid them altogether.
That is Stuyvesant Town. The photo is taken from 14th Street near Avenue C. Waterside can be seen in the top right corner.
It's my first time posting so take it easy on me. I only recently moved to Stuyvesant Town - $2,400 one-bedroom. However, I was born on 27th - at Bellevue - grew up on 14th and Fifth (where my mom still lives in her SCRIE apartment) and I went to Stuyvesant High School (in the old building).
I haven't seen the forms yet and even so, this is all speculative.
My mom's building went co-op when I was eight years old. She didn't buy, it wasn't worth it. The few who did buy see their maintenance fees raised every year (by some insane amount). The rest are one-third people like my mom and one-third MR people (although the MR there is more like $3,600 for a one-bedroom). Unless a good percentage of people buy, I'll stick with my rental. Even though the proposed cost plus maintenance fees would come to my current rent. I know the maintenance fees wouldn't stay that way for long - especially if there were only a few owners.
I've volunteered to help on Saturday. I have to get there at noon. If it's insane, I'll try to log on and post something so you know to run on over.
OK. Back to lurking...
BTW, I'd point you to the URL of the press release or notice on the TA website announcing the slate, but guess what ? It's not there. This info comes from today's T&V, a publication that many residents don't receive.
The meeting notice on the TA website hasn't been updated since March 5th, big F'ing surprise.
Please! Stop living in the past!
March 5th is so...last week.
Not like there's anything going on...
Betcha Maloney blames Bush > I will put up $10
Wow, 2400 for a 1-bedroom that you recently moved into-
that's a pretty amazing price.
:-D
http://ow.ly/1gBPH
The T&V article is informative. I'm sure Lux will post a scan of it later today.
Some items I found interesting:
-- HPD (Housing, Preservation and Development) will be at the meeting. Personally, I think HPD is the most important guest. It's HPD that has the most knowledge about the various government programs for affordable housing.
-- ST resident, Louis Richiardone, was the person who took out the ad last week surveying residents' interest in a condo conversion.
-- ST resident, Michael Alcamo (the M&A guy), is clearly trying to organize his own purchase of the entire ST/PCV with the goal of personally profiting from a condo conversion of ST/PCV. I don't see how his interests could possibly align with our and the TA's interests in long term affordable housing (even if everyone here wanted a condo conversion, why would we want to give Michael Alcamo an additional profit per apartment?).
When we first signed the lease it was $2,600 - this was with two months free rent. By the time we moved in it was $2,500 (they claimed there was some calculation mistake and I wasn't going to argue). Then we received a letter that as of this month our rent is down to $2,400. That letter came with ALL SORTS of legal forms telling me that if it is decided my apartment doesn't qualify for the RS laws after all, my rent can go back to what it originally was (without the two month free calculations). Strange - my husband keeps forgetting to sign those forms. Oops.
I don't know if it matters what you sign or don't sign, your rent was most likely lowered because of the Roberts decision and the fact that former market rate apartments now fall under the rent stabilization laws. Tishman hedged the wording on those leases because of possible future changes to the stabilization laws and the fact that your apartment will become de-stabilized when the J-51 tax abatement expires in 2020. (or 2017 depending on who you talk to.) Of course all this could change, well before then if the rent laws change.
Great! It's nice to hear some good news.
Great! It's nice to hear some good news.
I know it doesn't actually matter if I sign the forms or not. But we all play these little games...
Alcamo is obviously doing this because he smells a large fee. Maybe even a fee to walk away and leave the TA alone.
A quick look at his website indicates that his largest 'deal' is in the $20 million range. Who knows how that is calculated but he is clearly out of his league here--for that and many other reasons.
One thing I am certain of is that this guy is a leech. Treat him accordingly and pay him no mind. He's a distraction we cannot afford.
Good insight as usual, lifer. Perhaps the better Alcamo analogy might be this: even the weakest of sharks can smell when there's blood in the water.
My guess is that he's more of a catfish than a shark. Smell like bottom-feeder to me.
As an aside, nice rebukes to Alcamo and Monel in today's T&V!
I think that the award for 'insight' should go to sefatia this afternoon.
Without reasonable pricing and broad tenant acceptance, this thing will go over like a lead balloon. If we can get a good deal and get a substantive number of tenants to sign on, we've got a home run--pun intended.
Just checked my mail (I'm at 505 E 14 St). Still haven't gotten the TA envelope yet. Probably tomorrow.
You can have mine. Could have dropped it off on my way back from Associated! Now you tell me...
Louis Richiardone is Michael Alcamo's neighbor and a proud member of the STPCV Owners Association.
Wow. Thanks. And I was so nervous to post!
Don't be.
Speak your mind, tell the truth and share what you have to share.
That's the whole point.
Just ignore the bullies.
Any one get a renewal this month? I don't want to pay the new increase (too high).
any one i can talk to at the 'office' to discuss? thanks
Nice.
Pure coincidence, I'm sure...
ann,
Are you reading the lease renewal correctly?
The reason why I ask is that it's not very well written.
Your renewal rent should go up 3% for a 1-year renewal and 6% for a 2-year renewal. There's a J-51 Rider at the back of the lease renewal that makes that point a little clearer.
If you have issues with the 3% or 6% maximum rent stabilized bump, then I would try to negotiate with the management/leasing office.
yes, but thanks for pointing that out It was too high TBH to begin with. $2700 one BR !
Is there a man/woman assigned to negotiations of renewals does any one know? TIA
If I may get back to the hit piece in the Post for a sec. My initial response to it was just pure anger at ziggy for providing a damaging quote to the reporter, Kaja Whitehouse. But all of a sudden it occurrs to me. How did this reporter just happen to latch onto this story, and to ziggy and this particular group of tenants? Who exactly tracked who down? It may very well be that ziggy is responsible for more than just that quote.
There's also this final paragraph?
Who were these other tenants? Why do they sound suspiciously like members of Alcamo's Homeowner Association? Ziggy, do you have anything else you should come clean about? Are you affiliated in any way with the Homeowner Association? Maybe you can tell us what the LaMalle Survey was all about, too.
The "other tenants" are probably posters on this very board. And nothing ziggy said can't be found here.
I might find this amusing if I didn't believe you were truly serious.
The windmills are calling, Roger...
RR
I have known Kaja Whitehouse for several years. She had the whole story, including a copy of the Unity Pledge when she called me. How she got it I didn't ask and she didn't reveal her source.
As for Alcamo. I am not a member of the Homeowner Association. I did contact Alcamo to get a copy of his assumptions that underly his numbers and I reviewed them and gave him comments(Such work is a significant part of my job for the last 10+ years).
I know nothing about the survey that appeared in T&v
Please stay outta this one. You may know a lot about finance, but you know shit about ziggy. He and I, on the other hand, go way back.
My question to him is perfectly valid and very simple. Did Kaja Whitehouse approach him, or did ziggy, on his own or in conjunction with the other unnamed sources, approach the reporter?
correct
No. ziggy handed her the quote.
I don't know either of you guys from Adam.
That said, I think your paranoia and 'enthusiasm' tends to get the better of your judgment.
I thought the comments in that article were right-on. Made by Ziggy or whomever.
Don't ask me to commit to anything with the details to be written in later. That's not finance, that's common sense. A pledge could have been written without some of the specifics they included--which leads me to believe there was a reason for those items to be in there. Non-binding, of course...
RR
Did you read my answer?
Who gives a shit? This is boring.
No kidding. And I truly don't get it.
Mountain, meet molehill.
You'll have to drag Ziggy over to OvalTorture and waterboard him.
What's with the inquisition, RR? Even if you think Ziggy shouldn't have spoken to the Post, spewing around conspiracy theories isn't any better, nor is it helpful to anything except your anger.
This is a very strange situation, with more twists and turns to come. It's natural to be suspicious of everyone's agenda. Let's hope we will all be smarter after Saturday's meeting.And remember what the great philosopher Ray Davies wrote: paranoia will destroy ya!
BTW
I saw that CW Capital won the auction to buy Riverton out of bankruptcy
RR probably thinks that Ray Davies is one of the potheads living on the main floor of his building...and he might be right!
Thank you for your answer. At least you weren't going around peddling this shit.
You answer to yetai suggests that other commentors here are the "sources" mentioned at the end of the story. Whitehouse has been reading this blog?
Whoa, I never expected to see a quote of Ray Davies here. Now that I think about it, a lot of his songs and the themes in his songs are applicable to our situation.
Tired of waiting for you, TS?!?
Better things...to come?!?
What's with the inquisition, RR?
Can I quote you, StuyInEyePetie? "People are great, I really like them a lot, but when there's this kind of money at stake, trust is relative. I want to know who the players are, what's their angle, who stands to gain what and what, etc."
The whole back to the future theme ... Village Green Preservation Society, Muswell Hillbillies, etc.
Yeah well with all the flaming that scrolled by in about five seconds. I sent it to Luxie already.
Frankly, I think you have lost a lot of people with this shit.
Just what exactly are you 'charging' this guy with?
We know he doesn't agree with you on everything.
We know he spoke his mind to the Post (nobody actually reads the Post so that one is kind of moot...)
Would you mind explaining exactly what your gripe is with this guy? I would like to know.
Present me with facts and I may well go along with you.
Spout a bunch of crap and you will get another post about windmills...
Author Profile Page yetai | March 11, 2010 5:51 PM | Reply
CW Capital, HEROES. I just half heard something on WNYC-FM. CWC; Wells Fargo; Harlem; an auction; tenants hugging attorneys. Then the punchline that the "winners" will probably hold it for a year and resell it. Best I can do at the moment. Sorry about that. If it was next week I would swear they were talking about us.
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Author Profile Page yetai | March 11, 2010 6:08 PM | Reply
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100311/REAL_ESTATE/100319977
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Author Profile Page lifer replied to comment from yetai | March 11, 2010 6:09 PM | Reply
Are you being facetious or did CWC actually help the tenants?
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Author Profile Page yetai | March 11, 2010 6:12 PM | Reply
I believe the tenants FELT helped. Put 93.9 FM on now. They'll probably tell it again.
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Author Profile Page lifer replied to comment from yetai | March 11, 2010 6:13 PM | Reply
Wow. Nice!
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RR
She never told me directly that she reads this blog but she knows it exists (she is a reporter) and I would think it is highly likely she reads this blog occassionally
Maybe she is a poster???
Maybe Kaja=Roundly Raja
Who knows? Only the Shadow knows! LOL
When it comes to our current situation lifer, the idea is to present a unified tenant front to all the outside players who matter in this. Disagreement is inevitable, and there absolutely is a place for it. And disagreements will have to be resolved for us to progress. But the place to duke it out is among ourselves, not in the press. If for no other reason than to not turn off potential partners...
+1
Yeah. This board is the poster child for a unified front.
Oh. I forgot! Those who post here are the only ones who read it. (Smacking self in forehead.)
So your issue is that he disagrees with you and what you believe is best for the masses.
I am one for inclusion and debate. I don't include cheaters, posers and bottom feeders in that list but I sincerely doubt that ziggy fits that description. Mr. Alcamo is another matter.
That aside, I find your response wholly inadequate to justify your little inquisition. I think you are discrediting yourself. You should stick to the facts and attempt to suade people with a compelling case as opposed to 'anyone who disagrees with me is spoiling things for everyone' and 'don't ask no questions, I know what I'm doing.'
That's how you come across and that is not productive.
And, BTW, you have been on his case since long before that article came out so don't hang you hat on the post article.
In general, I'd really like to see a lot more reasoned thought and discussion here and a lot less crap. Probably about as likely as the limited appreciation co-op deal.
Too bad on both counts.
This place has become too embarrassing for me to further associate my pixels with it.
Yeah, and the banks aren't going to lend us any money if RR & ziggy disagree on what to fill the oval fountain with!
Go here and click on WNYC newscast. The Riverton story comes on about halfway through. http://www.wnyc.org/
I made myself pretty clear, and that was not "my issue." But that's fine. It's the internet, you're free to be as obtuse as you want.
Oy gevalt.
I think it's pretty clear that you you've got it out for anyone that disagrees with you--publicly or otherwise.
The challenge we have, among others, is to build a consensus. Dismissing the legitimate opinions and concerns of your neighbors out of hand is contrary to that goal. I realize you don't see it that way but that is at the heart of the issue.
Lead on, Rog, but when you turn back to rally the troops, you may find that there is no one behind you.
The Donald's latest project: http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/02/19/donald.trump.golf.scotland/index.html?hpt=C1
Maybe he won't be casting his beady eyes upon us, although he might want to turn the Oval into a golf course. Or make all of ST a golf course--hey, we already have the golf carts.
On another note--may I suggest that we all leave off the bickering and the finger pointing until after the meeting on Saturday? None of this chatter is getting us anywhere. Let's take a break, cool down, and not succumb to being divided and conquered. 'Kay?
Boychick bist a grosse' schmuck!
I promise beer will flow from the fountains!!!!!
That's really all I need to hear! Where do I sign...
A shaynem dank dir im pupik, putz !
:-)
You're welcome.
MY! MY! HAD I KNOW YOU COMMON PEOPLE WERE CAPABLE OF KILLING EACH OTHER, I WOULD HAVE STEPPED OUT OF THE PICTURE LAST YEAR! THEN I COULD HAVE FOLLOWED THROUGH WITH MY GRAND PLAN OF LEVELING THAT DUMP, BUILDING NEW OFFICES FOR THE CHINA MEN AND PAVING THE ROADS WITH YOUR BONES!
AS YOU WERE.
"I have NEVER blamed Dan for anything. He is trying very hard to manage this process intellingently and professionally.
My point was that this time the process must be done professionally and with all deliberate speed and when a proposal is finalized it should be presented in detail to the tenants who show up at a meeting called for that purpose
That was not the way it happened last time and as others have noted here virtually no tenant to this date knows the substance of the TA's 2006 bid.
And yes hindsight is 20-20 but all we have to go on is historical performance"
Once again, are you serious? Who do you think had a HUGE hand in putting together our bid in 2006? DAN GARODNICK, that's who. The way I read it, that means that you are blaming Dan for doing a poor job last time. So what do you mean that you "have NEVER blamed Dan for anything"? Yes, you have.
He tends to blame the TA for everything; ever since they dismissed his suggestions for their foci they are personae non grata. [Even more so when no one would join his alterna-TA; clearly they must be the enemy!] Why blame Dan when he can blame the TA? Same old, same old.
This is a blog, disagreement is to be expected. I'm all for it. That's what keeps LL interesting and vital. Since I'm not "leading" anything, practicing the fine art of diplomacy is not a concern.
This is rich coming from you: "Dismissing the legitimate opinions and concerns of your neighbors out of hand..." I'm the "lunatic" who's always "tilting at windmills," remember? Apparently someone's appointed you arbiter of what are legitimate opinions and concerns and what aren't. Pot meet kettle.
A few random observations from a Stuy Town resident of nearly 20 years:
1.Please people: disgree, discuss, debate, kvetch, complain...whatever...but let's all be respectful to each other and not behave like the Speyers of the world. Everyone is entitled to their own point of view.
2.Alcamo's view that we can buy a one-bedroom apartment for $105,000 is absolute fantasy. I don't know where he gets his numbers from or what's his card in the deck...but...something smells fishy in Denmark. Why all of a sudden does he get ink in the T&V? Why is he now the resident expert?
3.The chances of Stuy Town ever ending up as a condo are ZERO.
4.Chances of a co-op with a flip tax and limited appreciation upon sale...AT BEST 20%...too much politics, infighting, etc.
5.Bloomberg will do EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING to thwart a tenant bid. He wants this place to go to one of his buddies at a fire sale price.
6.Go to the meeting tomorrow, listen, learn...and then we can to battle anew!
7.Finally, have a wonderful weekend all.
I enjoy the battle and the banter here!
A few random observations from a Stuy Town resident of nearly 20 years:
1.Please people: disgree, discuss, debate, kvetch, complain...whatever...but let's all be respectful to each other and not behave like the Speyers of the world. Everyone is entitled to their own point of view.
2.Alcamo's view that we can buy a one-bedroom apartment for $105,000 is absolute fantasy. I don't know where he gets his numbers from or what's his card in the deck...but...something smells fishy in Denmark. Why all of a sudden does he get ink in the T&V? Why is he now the resident expert?
3.The chances of Stuy Town ever ending up as a condo are ZERO.
4.Chances of a co-op with a flip tax and limited appreciation upon sale...AT BEST 20%...too much politics, infighting, etc.
5.Bloomberg will do EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING to thwart a tenant bid. He wants this place to go to one of his buddies at a fire sale price.
6.Go to the meeting tomorrow, listen, learn...and then we can to battle anew!
7.Finally, have a wonderful weekend all.
I enjoy the battle and the banter here!
A few comments:
RR: Yeah, people are great, including you in all your raging glory. At the same time, does that exempt any of us from being called on our BS? You already know Ziggy's angle; he's been pretty transparent. If you're digging for something else that meets your pre-conceived ideas, acting all inquisitive towards other posters isn't a very effective tactic. Hopefully you've noticed that.
Lifer: Didn't you tell me to ignore RR? I see you've gone and ignored your own advice. LOL.
hippo: Thank you for making a lot of sense.
You stay classy, PCV/Stuy Town. Have a great Friday, everyone, and I'll "see" you all tomorrow!
Just couldn't take it no more...being 'round Roger all this time...
I'll try to be better going forward. NOT!
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100312/REAL_ESTATE/100319958
OK. Let the bickering commence.
Figures from Wells Fargo purchase of Riverton were in the paper today. Interesting food for thought that the fire sale price seemed to be approx 50% of the debt.
I'm disappointed that a creative deal didn't happen for Riverton. It would have been nice to preserve that as a middle class icon in Harlem too. But I guess it's possible that things could still move forward from this point for them.
Bicker about what?
All WHAT time?!? You've only been commenting here since around Thanksgiving. Also, was wonderin' who appointed YOU Miss Manners/the Welcoming Committee (I musta been absent that day)? For one so adroit at pointing out the bullies to the newbies (having been a frosh yourself, until quite recently), maybe try not being so bullyish yourself. Your own advice can be a curious thing, eh?
Do they have one of those inflatable trampolines outside your window? Perhaps they should...
So nice that you don't want me to hurt myself after your li'l push.